(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[NZ]SZ[19]KM[8.00]TM[5400]OT[5x60 byo-yomi]
GN[North America Ing Masters Round 3 Mingjiu Jiang (7p) vs Zhongxia Zhao (6d)]PW[Mingjiu Jiang]PB[Zhongxia Zhao]WR[7p]BR[6d]DT[2008-08-06]EV[North America Ing Masters]RO[3]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]US[Tom Hodges]C[kyuboy [9k\]: this is to break the silence
kyuboy [9k\]: xD
USGO5 [-\]: the game is starting
Richdad [5d\]: mingjiu needs to do some catching up now
paar [4k\]: what happend with the adjourned game yesterday?
Akagi316 [7k\]: mingjiu won all his games so far right
kyuboy [9k\]: no
Mihan [7k\]: you cannot tel me it takes this much for 1st move. 
kyuboy [9k\]: lost to 3p
blackness2 [1d\]: that was in the open division though
kyuboy [9k\]: :O
Ataraxia [19k?\]: why is it called "Ing"?
kyuboy [9k\]: i dunno
Swordfish7 [5d\]: i think the question were all asking is
Swordfish7 [5d\]: why isnt youtube working
kyuboy [9k\]: yay 5d can kibitz
Richdad [5d\]: im strongest kibitzer right now
Richdad [5d\]: im on top of swordfish, even
lubricated [5k\]: youtube's down, so what
shinkirou [1k\]: :\]
Swordfish7 [5d\]: its so frustrating i might kill myself
Ataraxia [19k?\]: youtube is working...
kyuboy [9k\]: :O
lubricated [5k\]: oh it works fine for me =p
kyuboy [9k\]: :P
kyuboy [9k\]: same
Swordfish7 [5d\]: i cant win unless im listening to my music
Swordfish7 [5d\]: i just get a white void were the video is supposed to be
kyuboy [9k\]: :O
kyuboy [9k\]: o.o
Richdad [5d\]: working for me, swordfish
Swordfish7 [5d\]: if it doesnt work soon ima lose my way back to 4d
blackness2 [1d\]: its working
kyuboy [9k\]: :O
]RE[W+Resign]
;B[cp]
;W[pd]
;B[dc]
;W[pq]
;B[po]C[shinkirou [1k\]: oh using same opening as 3p earlier today
]
;W[qo]
;B[pp]
;W[qp]
;B[oq]C[kyuboy [9k\]: :O
YangX [4d\]: so fast...
shinkirou [1k\]: ah well
Richdad [5d\]: he didnt follow it the same
]
;W[qn]
;B[pr]
;W[qq]C[Richdad [5d\]: doesnt want to repeat positions
shinkirou [1k\]: ya he chose different variation
]
;B[iq]
;W[cj]C[Swordfish7 [5d\]: earlier he played e4?
Swordfish7 [5d\]: yeah didnt turn out so well for him
jsc [14k\]: that gentlerain up there?
Swordfish7 [5d\]: this is quite popular tho
]
;B[dk]C[Richdad [5d\]: swordfish, we should study together
kyuboy [9k\]: i dont think he wants to
YangX [4d\]: B seemed like he alredy plann this game out
shinkirou [1k\]: can i be your student ? lol
chefmike [6k\]: alot of peple watch Mingjiu lessions, very popular
Shindo02 [11k\]: wut u talkin bout watch the game if thats wut u came here to do
kyuboy [9k\]: he wouldnt watch a pros lesson/>
Swordfish7 [5d\]: well the way i am right now you could probably teach me shin
Pizzaz [19k\]: how comr the timers aren't being used
kyuboy [9k\]: who*
Swordfish7 [5d\]: im sucking so bad lately
]
;W[ck]C[shinkirou [1k\]: aww so i suck that much :)
]
;B[dl]C[Swordfish7 [5d\]: i never saw d9 with this openning
Rocker [4d\]: c8
]
;W[cl]
;B[cm]C[Swordfish7 [5d\]: d10
Rocker [4d\]: cut first
Richdad [5d\]: lol no cut
]
;W[bm]C[Swordfish7 [5d\]: cut is 4d move
Richdad [5d\]: its blacks area, cut is total overplay
Pizzaz [19k\]: this go congress right?
Rocker [4d\]: well u were wrong too hehe
Swordfish7 [5d\]: no i have a game d10 was played
Swordfish7 [5d\]: pretty new
Swordfish7 [5d\]: d10 c14 c3 d3 c6 
Richdad [5d\]: the players are making history
Shindo02 [11k\]: wut the heck u guys talkin bout with u were wrong too
gogo [2d\]: i wanna sashimi u s-fish
USGO5 [-\]: North America Ing Masters Round 3 Mingju Jiang (7p) vs Zhongxia Zhao (6d)
Shindo02 [11k\]: i no that
]
;B[cn]C[shinkirou [1k\]: i like b now 
]
;W[cg]C[Rocker [4d\]: remembering moves r for kyus , i dun study pros for my creative insight
chefmike [6k\]: lol
Swordfish7 [5d\]: your creative insight is what other people call overplay
chefmike [6k\]: LOL
Richdad [5d\]: j4 would be much better at j4
shinkirou [1k\]: j3 is so low though :(
hanen [13k\]: its not about remembering moves, its about why that move was made in the first place
Richdad [5d\]: its like i want to o4, but feel its slow
Rocker [4d\]: it works  agains up to kgs 7d , so its OK 
Richdad [5d\]: and p7 has terrible aji
Rocker [4d\]: against*
]
;B[dj]
;W[di]
;B[ei]C[Swordfish7 [5d\]: heh this is what i played aganist player from hong kong
]
;W[dh]C[Swordfish7 [5d\]: almost exactly the same
]
;B[io]C[shinkirou [1k\]: hehe
Richdad [5d\]: how did it go?
shinkirou [1k\]: how did it end ?
]
;W[cq]C[Swordfish7 [5d\]: japanease 8 pro said d10-d12 bad seq make white too strong
gogo [2d\]: this is getting interesting I need my cerveza and swordfish sashimi
Richdad [5d\]: even with the moyo?
Rocker [4d\]: at kgs 5d level the game is not decided on this kind of fuseki , i can tell it almost for sure
gogo [2d\]: no dont need any mayo
Swordfish7 [5d\]: i had mini chinease not avalanche moyo
shinkirou [1k\]: o3 is the tesuji here for white right ?
Swordfish7 [5d\]: also d16 was a hoshi stone so i had to defend
Richdad [5d\]: ah. quite different
Swordfish7 [5d\]: maybe cuz black got sente to play j5 making white strong is an ok trade
Richdad [5d\]: still, i would probably skip it
Richdad [5d\]: if black j5 directly, is w going to D10?
Akagi316 [7k\]: just d3?
Richdad [5d\]: its like d10 is blacks priviledge, no reason to play it "now"
Rocker [4d\]: why they dont go to bed , and still playing go?
]
;B[bq]
;W[dp]C[Rocker [4d\]: c5 camon why think
Swordfish7 [5d\]: b3 doesnt feel so good
Akagi316 [7k\]: thought b would d3 for sure :/
Musketeer [3d\]: d3 better than b3
]
;B[dq]C[Ataraxia [19k?\]: he wants to keep white separated
chefmike [6k\]: last nits game ended quick
Rocker [4d\]: nowadays young dudes study josekis too much and share the infomation and play it out in real games too much , no fresh fusekis anymore
Richdad [5d\]: lol rocker, so far from true
Rocker [4d\]: jeje
gougou [1d\]: rocker: isnt it much more true of old dudes?
Jaiyk [2d?\]: sorry Rocker, I'll get off your lawn
Richdad [5d\]: new josekis everyday
Lilltiger [1d\]: go has never been as inovative as today
]
;W[co]
;B[bp]C[Swordfish7 [5d\]: yes mini chinease was just invented a few years back
Jaiyk [2d?\]: 4,4 was what, a few decades ago?
Swordfish7 [5d\]: d8 only goes back 2 or 3 years i think
gogo [2d\]: d5
Richdad [5d\]: i remember watching cho chikun games in the which the short pincer joseki was still unknown and they played different vars every game
Rocker [4d\]: they made fuseki like a math formula , if i have access to such info (like in go base) i will be pro too
]
;W[eq]
;B[dr]C[Swordfish7 [5d\]: you dont seem to think very higly of pros
]
;W[dm]C[Lilltiger [1d\]: to me it looks like b position is falling apart
shinkirou [1k\]: well b did make a fair bit
]
;B[dn]
;W[em]
;B[en]C[Richdad [5d\]: it seems b3 is the culprit
]
;W[fm]C[Swordfish7 [5d\]: no black alot of moves for a pretty small corner
]
;B[fn]
;W[gm]C[Swordfish7 [5d\]: now forsaked the center
Swordfish7 [5d\]: forsaken*
Lilltiger [1d\]: mmm
Richdad [5d\]: enough for w
gogo [2d\]: not bad
Rocker [4d\]: thats why the gobase preventing non members of any go association to obtain the access cuz they r afraid there will be too many high rankers so they cant charge $$ to give lessons
Jaiyk [2d?\]: nice conspiracy theory
]
;B[gn]C[Rocker [4d\]: hehe
gogo [2d\]: what's gobase?
shinkirou [1k\]: big go website
Richdad [5d\]: an excellent website
Swordfish7 [5d\]: you think people could become strong if they just had a gobase account?
chefmike [6k\]: gobase= people who shot JFK
chefmike [6k\]: hehe
Richdad [5d\]: lol chefmike
Swordfish7 [5d\]: haha
shinkirou [1k\]: i have a free membership there but made my account sometime ago
gogo [2d\]: what's it for?
USGO5 [-\]: Welcome to the 2008 North American Ing Masters (NAIM) Tournament!  Thirty-two top players from North American are competing in the 5-round tournament for $10,000 in prizes. 
Musketeer [3d\]: if you take away 4 stones each, b get pretty good size corner
Richdad [5d\]: what about d10 musketeer?
Swordfish7 [5d\]: center power is not about 4 stones
Rocker [4d\]: if they r not lazy , yes they can be quite strong
shinkirou [1k\]: ya but d10 is so weak now
Richdad [5d\]: take away all the w stones in the corner
Richdad [5d\]: and consider w cut first
]
;W[im]C[Richdad [5d\]: becase d4 can be considered kikashi
gogo [2d\]: what's gobase for?
Richdad [5d\]: it would be unthinkable to play like this
Richdad [5d\]: it has a huge database that searches for patterns
Richdad [5d\]: greaat for fuseki study
Swordfish7 [5d\]: we should ask takemeba
shinkirou [1k\]: just visit the website....
Musketeer [3d\]: b's center is not that weak
]
;B[gk]
;W[ik]C[Swordfish7 [5d\]: no this is ama style to make center weak then play g9 crap
shinkirou [1k\]: lol
HowToLose [5k\]: looks like b got too much on the bottom
]
;B[ij]C[HowToLose [5k\]: 6d is too good to let g9 die
shinkirou [1k\]: doesn' thave to die
]
;W[jj]C[shinkirou [1k\]: just punish upper left
Swordfish7 [5d\]: yeah dying is not the point
shinkirou [1k\]: but anyway w is not that strong too
shinkirou [1k\]: so i dunno
]
;B[ii]C[Jaiyk [2d?\]: heh
]
;W[hk]C[Swordfish7 [5d\]: white wants to attack, if black dies then thats good too
Jaiyk [2d?\]: talk is cheap
]
;B[gj]
;W[ji]C[Richdad [5d\]: w gets strong in center, then he can o3
Richdad [5d\]: so bs points are in bottom left only
Rocker [4d\]: hane!
]
;B[jh]C[Musketeer [3d\]: now b has to worry about the right side
Rocker [4d\]: muhahaha
gogo [2d\]: cut
Swordfish7 [5d\]: cut
Swordfish7 [5d\]: is black zchen?
gogo [2d\]: what's muhaha
HowToLose [5k\]: muahaha = evil laugh
]
;W[ih]C[gogo [2d\]: must be Japanese word
HowToLose [5k\]: muhaha is the sound a cat makes as it throws up
Jaiyk [2d?\]: Dr Horrible style laugh
]
;B[gh]C[Rocker [4d\]: extend!
lubricated [5k\]: fail kibitz is fail
Swordfish7 [5d\]: this just looks like too much overplay
Rocker [4d\]: like a proud man!
Richdad [5d\]: this turned messy fast
Jaiyk [2d?\]: a tautology is a tautology
]
;W[hh]
;B[gi]C[Musketeer [3d\]: b's k12 ?
Rocker [4d\]: no
]
;W[kl]C[shinkirou [1k\]: w right does look pretty big hehe
Swordfish7 [5d\]: if black k13
Swordfish7 [5d\]: im gonna kill myself
Rocker [4d\]: defence first!
Richdad [5d\]: lol swordfish
Rocker [4d\]: l12 extend like a prode man
Lilltiger [1d\]: someone call black and pay him to play k13!
shinkirou [1k\]: have to L12 to keep fighting
Richdad [5d\]: g14
Musketeer [3d\]: black does not look good.
Swordfish7 [5d\]: l12 extend like kgs 4d overplay~_~
shinkirou [1k\]: lol
Swordfish7 [5d\]: g14 apropraite move
HowToLose [5k\]: h14 > g14?
Swordfish7 [5d\]: but black overplay so much up to here no reason not to continue doing so
Musketeer [3d\]: that's a honte.
Rocker [4d\]: muhaha thats almost a must move in terms of professional sense
Rocker [4d\]: L12
]
;B[gf]
;W[if]C[Rocker [4d\]: oops
Swordfish7 [5d\]: haha
shinkirou [1k\]: lol
Swordfish7 [5d\]: you loose =P
Rocker [4d\]: muhaha it happens 
gogo [2d\]: k13
Richdad [5d\]: j14 very good move
Richdad [5d\]: very pro move
Swordfish7 [5d\]: yeah i was wondering where white plays after g14
Lilltiger [1d\]: very nice , public display of the difference between 4d and 5d+
Swordfish7 [5d\]: i thought k13 atari
shinkirou [1k\]: i thought the opposite atari :)
Richdad [5d\]: and make fukure, right, but j14 is exactly the fundamental
Swordfish7 [5d\]: the oposite atari is suicide
Richdad [5d\]: its the race between g14 and j14
shinkirou [1k\]: hehe
Richdad [5d\]: not suicide, self-atari :)
]
;B[hd]C[Rocker [4d\]: the thing is knowing next moves and feeling a move is good after its played is two very very different things i know this for sure hehe
Swordfish7 [5d\]: now rocker wants to attach j16
Richdad [5d\]: lol
Musketeer [3d\]: k16 is enough
]
;W[id]C[Richdad [5d\]: k16 leaves
]
;B[ic]C[Richdad [5d\]: cut
]
;W[jd]
;B[jc]
;W[kc]
;B[hc]C[Richdad [5d\]: attach is fine, b is already connected to D17
]
;W[kd]C[Swordfish7 [5d\]: wow~_~
lepore [2d\]: right side looks quite white
Swordfish7 [5d\]: white suck a good result
shinkirou [1k\]: terrible for b
]
;B[qf]C[Richdad [5d\]: k12 looks useless
Swordfish7 [5d\]: pincer
Richdad [5d\]: like a lost stone
]
;W[qd]
;B[of]C[Musketeer [3d\]: p14 not good
Rocker [4d\]: q11
Richdad [5d\]: r16 is standard. why are they playing so fast -.-
Swordfish7 [5d\]: black makes too many thin shapes
Richdad [5d\]: he wants to play fast, becase he is not good
Rocker [4d\]: r12?
]
;W[ed]C[Rocker [4d\]: !
Swordfish7 [5d\]: see, thin shapes
Swordfish7 [5d\]: pro punishing hehe
Ataraxia [19k?\]: lol gobase not SSL?? have lockout?
Rocker [4d\]: why no one predicting any moves , r u afraid!!??
gogo [2d\]: shitsky
Rocker [4d\]: hehehe
shinkirou [1k\]: t1
Swordfish7 [5d\]: d14 ?!
calm [6k\]: Too many games.
Ataraxia [19k?\]: f16
Richdad [5d\]: E16 really severe!
calm [6k\]: Plus some idiot who is arguing that YTilun Yang is a fighter.
shinkirou [1k\]: yilun yang is playing ?
Rocker [4d\]: d16?
gogo [2d\]: d16
Swordfish7 [5d\]: d16 e14 
Swordfish7 [5d\]: then black cut
Swordfish7 [5d\]: e17 seems to be safest right now
Rocker [4d\]: hmmm
Musketeer [3d\]: g12 group will get seperated
HowToLose [5k\]: what is c16?
HowToLose [5k\]: *if
]
;B[dd]C[Rocker [4d\]: mighty musketter ur call?
Swordfish7 [5d\]: the point is black wants to connect all his stones
Rocker [4d\]: muhahaha
]
;W[ee]C[Swordfish7 [5d\]: c16 doesnt help that
Musketeer [3d\]: f18 now
]
;B[ec]C[Swordfish7 [5d\]: now cutO-o
gogo [2d\]: g15
Rocker [4d\]: i was right againnnnnnnnnn
Swordfish7 [5d\]: white has problem at d14 
]
;W[ge]
;B[he]
;W[hf]
;B[ff]C[Swordfish7 [5d\]: e14 
gogo [2d\]: d15
Musketeer [3d\]: trouble for black
Swordfish7 [5d\]: this doesnt work O-o
HowToLose [5k\]: owie
Rocker [4d\]: d15
Ataraxia [19k?\]: why didnt black play F15 last move?
gogo [2d\]: i said that already
Musketeer [3d\]: d14 enougt
g0098 [2k\]: W F15
Richdad [5d\]: f15 e14 d15 d14 c15 c14 b14 b13 b16 b12 c12 b11 c11 b10 b9 5 to 5 b wins
Swordfish7 [5d\]: i dunno i think black might collapse in a few moves
HowToLose [5k\]: surely g16 is fine?
Rocker [4d\]: pros dont play loose moves
Richdad [5d\]: sorry, gave bad sequence
Swordfish7 [5d\]: black probably scramble for eyes now at e12 or something
Richdad [5d\]: still, e14 is enought, because w gets f17
Korea4K [2d\]: F18
Swordfish7 [5d\]: f18O-o
]
;W[de]C[Rocker [4d\]: muhahaha again i was right
gogo [2d\]: c15
Ataraxia [19k?\]: why is he pro and you not rocker?
Jaiyk [2d?\]: it's the laugh.
HowToLose [5k\]: f15 f16 g16 f17 c15 ewh?
HowToLose [5k\]: (ew?
HowToLose [5k\]: *eh?
HowToLose [5k\]: bad typing day
]
;B[ce]C[Swordfish7 [5d\]: e13 
Musketeer [3d\]: now white has to play d14
HowToLose [5k\]: why?
Musketeer [3d\]: e13 ok too,
Rocker [4d\]: i suspect w will c14 and let b brige under
Musketeer [3d\]: but b got the whole corner
gogo [2d\]: e13
Swordfish7 [5d\]: corner not imporatant if f14 dies
HowToLose [5k\]: g16?
veronick [11k\]: yes
Musketeer [3d\]: c14 not good, b connects
oopp [1k\]: f15
j314 [1k\]: b connect w g16
]
;W[eg]C[Swordfish7 [5d\]: swordfish wins
Musketeer [3d\]: rocker and fish7 win
gogo [2d\]: satisfyieng for w
HowToLose [5k\]: how?
Musketeer [3d\]: f15, no choice
USGO5 [-\]: both players still have just over an hour
gogo [2d\]: b still not out of the woods yet
HowToLose [5k\]: all I see is that b lives everywhere and white gets nothing
shinkirou [1k\]: you don't see much 
Musketeer [3d\]: wait until after the attack on r14
Swordfish7 [5d\]: how do you see g12 living howtolose
]
;B[fe]
;W[fd]
;B[gd]
;W[fc]
;B[kb]
;W[lb]
;B[ja]C[HowToLose [5k\]: like that
Swordfish7 [5d\]: this is horrible
]
;W[mc]C[Swordfish7 [5d\]: r11 
Swordfish7 [5d\]: must
]
(;B[qj]C[gogo [2d\]: e18
])
(;B[qi]C[shinkirou [1k\]: hmm tenuki
Shana [3d\]: heh
Swordfish7 [5d\]: white got to defend n17 area with a double purpose move like that
Lilltiger [1d\]: haha
Musketeer [3d\]: fish7 again
]
;W[gb]C[Musketeer [3d\]: b's happy to get that move
gogo [2d\]: dead
Musketeer [3d\]: oops
shinkirou [1k\]: ko
gogo [2d\]: yes
Musketeer [3d\]: is that group ok
Confuse24 [3k\]: go ricky
gogo [2d\]: dead dead dead
brucegogo [1d?\]: dead
Confuse24 [3k\]: its alive
Musketeer [3d\]: h18, one eye
Musketeer [3d\]: but gote
Confuse24 [3k\]: yea
]
;B[hn]C[Rocker [4d\]: uh?
HowToLose [5k\]: how dead?
gogo [2d\]: deader
Akagi316 [7k\]: what's b doing...
]
;W[hm]C[Confuse24 [3k\]: living
HowToLose [5k\]: h18, then w can't stop an eye in the middle
]
;B[fk]C[gogo [2d\]: f12
brucegogo [1d?\]: h19
Rucker [1k\]: feng yun was like out to kill in this game
Rucker [1k\]: lol
]
;W[eb]C[Rucker [1k\]: shes scary
]
;B[db]
;W[la]C[shinkirou [1k\]: wrong game
Rucker [1k\]: (wrong game
Rucker [1k\]: )
Rucker [1k\]: yea
shinkirou [1k\]: lol
gogo [2d\]: yah
Rucker [1k\]: sry haha
]
;B[hb]C[Rucker [1k\]: xD
]
;W[jb]C[Musketeer [3d\]: ko
]
;B[ib]
;W[ka]
;B[ha]
;W[jb]C[shinkirou [1k\]: right :)
Over9k [5k\]: g19 
Musketeer [3d\]: game over!
gogo [2d\]: j15
]
;B[ie]
;W[jf]C[gogo [2d\]: f12
]
;B[kb]C[Musketeer [3d\]: white will get something
Confuse24 [3k\]: white is definetely gonna get something
Musketeer [3d\]: q12
]
;W[pg]C[Confuse24 [3k\]: he can respond
]
;B[qg]
;W[jb]
;B[ea]
;W[fb]
;B[kb]C[gogo [2d\]: f12
Rocker [4d\]: hmmm...........
dogbert [3d\]: what was H6 for?
Rocker [4d\]: b15!
shinkirou [1k\]: haha ya ... dunno
dogbert [3d\]: was very suicidal
Confuse24 [3k\]: b can connect
Musketeer [3d\]: f13
]
;W[eh]C[USGO5 [-\]: b resign
Confuse24 [3k\]: ricky
Confuse24 [3k\]: u could have lived
shinkirou [1k\]: aww
Rocker [4d\]: oh?
gogo [2d\]: f12
brucegogo [1d?\]: why resign?
shinkirou [1k\]: makes sense he resigned
brucegogo [1d?\]: E10 can live
Confuse24 [3k\]: damn
Swordfish7 [5d\]: game was too horrible 
Confuse24 [3k\]: i no but
Swordfish7 [5d\]: black knows he played like crap
Swordfish7 [5d\]: this is pro not some crappy ama, no chance to win from this
brucegogo [1d?\]: how about e10, 
Joven [?\]: wow. thanks USGO.
Rucker [1k\]: b is still strong player though
gogo [2d\]:  f12 would have been better
USGO5 [-\]: thanks to the players and to all the observers!
]))
